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Hi folks,

I am building a guitar in EIR and Austrian Moonspruce.
A few years ago, I built another guitar with EIR too, and at the time I had been taught that EIR is an oily wood, that requires some cleaning with acetone before gluing something on it.

Do you guys always clean indian rosewood with acetone before gluing braces, etc?
Is it really necessary?
I glued the neck and tails blocks on the sides and I forgot to clean with acetone...

Thanks

Q.

I've built 5 guitars from EIR and never wiped before gluing.


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I use Titebond Original --- no pre-glue prep except sanding.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I have always found that wiping with acetone brings the oils up. I concur with Rod and Ken, sanding or planing or how ever you prep your joints. I have used LMI white glue and West Systems epoxy. Great results with both. I have not tried the new LMI yellow.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

+1 to the others. Just scrape or sand.

I never have, no problems.

So does that mean you "have" problems?

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Thank you guys!
I glue with Titebond, and fish glue, depending on the open time I need, so there should be no problem !

I wipe every joint I make with acetone before gluing. Not just to get rid of oils in EIR but it removes any trace of dust or dirt. Do I need to do it ? Not likely, but been doing it for years and not likely to change. Do what works for you.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

No wiping. Fresh planed or sanded joints glue well with titebond.

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Another day, another dollar.

I found that with oily woods, wiping a freshly sanded or cut surface just seems to draw more oils to the surface of the wood, so I avoid it.
I do however wipe down the surface with a clean cloth, amazing how much you find comes off sometimes.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I usually wipe with a cloth just slightly moistened with DNA. Not enough to cause problems, just enough to remove surface oils, then blow the wood to remove dust. I use titebond and even when I forget to wipe with DNA it glues fine. I do the same with Cocobolo but with it I always use the wipe.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

The most important thing in any glue joint, besides it fitting well in the first place, is having a fresh, smooth, and clean surface (high surface energy, uncontaminated). That means planed, scraped, or sanded relatively recently and with all dust removed (preferably with compressed air or a dry cloth). On wood, everything you do from that stage except gluing makes things worse (solvent wipes, toothing, even waiting!).

At least that's true unless you happen to have a plasma or oxygen-rich-flame surface treatment setup in your workshop...

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

I wipe with Naptha to remove MY oils from the wood before gluing.

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Don't say things like that.
I've got enough things on my T.A.S. list already!

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I never have done that either but read about it somewhere. I remember once gluing a cocobolo board down and the next day the squeeze out was orange. I like to run a scraper over most joints before gluing and wiping with a cloth.

I wiped some glue (Duco) off the back of my EIR build with denatured alcohol. I now have dark streaks where I wiped. I expected it to evaporate overnight, but no different this morning. Have I done something irreversible? Is it just oils? Try wiping it again with naphtha? I'm getting ready to glue my maple bindings and would like to resolve this first. Any suggestions appreciated.

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Brad Hall
Mystic Dawg Guitars

The streaks should sand off pretty easy. The solvent mixed with the RW resin and dust and created a wipe on stain. Also, seems the Duco residue has sorta sealed the wood. If you wet the area with naphtha the streaks will likely blend right in and disappear giving a pre-view of the look of the seal coat. When the naphtha evaporates the streaks may reappear.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Thanks, the majority of the streaks did sand out. Heart rate back down! I posted on the kit builders forum, but will repeat this portion here:

I did run into a glitch today. While sanding a bit more on the back a brown spot about 3/8" long suddenly came through the herringbone backstrip. I don't understand how this is possible, as the individual pieces are solid all the way through. I have some cut offs and sliced one to verify. Right now the only fix I can come up with is to remove a thin slice and fill it with another new piece. Will be a challenge matching up the chevrons, but should be mostly invisible when done. I'm open to any alternative fix any of you can offer.

Now I'm thinking I may have created a penetrating stain that discolored the backstrip. Only the one small spot though. What do you think?

Upon further examination, I probably sanded through the strip. It is right behind the neck block and felt too pronounced to be be right. I blended it in and went two strokes too far. Now I can learn how to inlay. Thanks Ken for the clue.

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Brad Hall
Mystic Dawg Guitars

I just glued up a cocobolo veneer on a headstock yesterday without wiping using TB111….and it failed completely. After one hour in clamps there was no bond whatsoever. Scraped all the glue off completely and let dry. Glued it up second time, wiped with lacquer thinner and used TB1 this time and got a good bond. Not sure if it was the TB3 glue reacting to the cocobolo, or not wiping w/ solvent first? Will have to do some further testing to verify. Funny thing is I rarely use the TB3 but just happened to use it for something right before so it was on the bench!

Just thought I'd throw it out there as it may save someone a headache.

JeffD

Jeff that is interesting. I made a bunch of cocobolo bindings with b/w purfling lines just a month or so ago.





I glued the veneers on with elmer's high heat glue (same as TB3). The prep for the cocobolo was just run through my drum sander with 80 grit. The purfling lines are well bonded to the cocobolo....


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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Elmer's anything is NOT the same as Tite Bond anything. I have always used Elmer's wood glues on cocobolo and have never had to do anything to the wood to get a good bond. Elmer's glues are obviously totally different formulations than Tite Bond. There is reason that the Elmer's worked without a problem. I, frankly, will not use Tite bond on instruments...it does not perform as well as Elmer's.

Grant

Grant,
Now that is interesting! I always figured Elmers white glue-all was pretty much the same as the old LMI white. But, I really don't know.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

No, no, no, not the white glue-all, that is not for wood. They make various yellow wood glues, of which the most common is their "Carpenter's Wood Glue". It is what I use most. It glues rosewoods without any problems, and it dries hard and crystalline, with no "cold creep". In my opinion, all of their glues are far better for our used than their Titebond counterparts.

Grant

I highly disagree there. Original Titebond glue is the gold standard.

And wiping wood with solvent has been scientifically proven to not be effective. Lots of misinformation in this thread.